Wednesday, February 17, 2010

2.17.10 -- 1 Corinthains 5

1 Corinthians 5

This is a great chapter on the concept of judgment within the church. There seem to be two ways to go today.

Some churches steep themselves in judgment so deeply that they don't seem to do anything else. You've heard of them. They're the ones who make the news carrying signs that read things like "God hates fags." They rail on and on about the wickedness of society while not doing a thing about their own anger (and last I heard wrath is still a sin).

The other option we see often is a total lack of judgment of any sort. "Don't judge" has become a mantra of sorts for a lot of people and for a lot of churches. They're so politically correct they're afraid to even discuss the concept of sin lest they should offend someone. This too is not a good approach.

What then is a Christian to do? Well, in this chapter Paul pretty well lays it out.

1 Cor 5:5 ~ Wow, this sounds really harsh. Lots of people read this verse and think Paul is talking about someone losing their salvation. Since elsewhere in the Bible the concept of "once saved always saved" is quite clearly taught, and the Bible (being inerrant) can't contradict itself, that can't really be the meaning here. What then does the verse mean when it speaks of delivering someone over to Satan? The next few words give us a clue. It's not the soul that will be destroyed, but rather the flesh. Basically what is being said here is if someone is so determined to follow the path to (temporal) destruction, let them! Don't keep trying to get them to repent if they refuse. They will experience God's wrath here on earth (rather than in eternity) in that Satan (whom they chose to follow) will be permitted to torment and even destroy their physical bodies.

1 Cor 5:6 ~ I have a tendency to just jump right over this one some times. However, it's well worth looking at. When a church allows its members to sin unrestrained, the praise of the entire group is spoiled in God's eyes. Similarly, when a Christian allows a little bit of sin to reign in just one part of their life, their entire being is tainted by it. Does this mean that we have to be perfect in order to praise God? Not at all! None of us are that. What it does mean is that we need to deal with our sins, and those of our fellow believers, in a manner befitting our station. Rather than letting sin reign, becoming a slave to it, we should exert control over it. We should struggle against sin, not just sit back and let it have its way with us.

1 Cor 5:9-13 ~ Here is the formula Paul gives for judging others. Don't judge non-believers! How silly to try to get people to follow a set of rules when they don't know the God who made those rules! It's like going to another country and trying to get the people there to follow the laws and regulations of your home town. They follow the world because they are of the world. Likewise, when someone becomes a Christian, they should put aside the traditions they are accustomed to and learn the ways of the faith. A Christian who continues in sin is like someone who becomes a naturalized citizen of this country but still attempts to live by the rules of their former home. It just doesn't work! So, Christians should not expect non-Christians to follow God's laws. And Christians should expect other Christians to follow God's laws. Pretty simple, huh? If a Christian doesn't want to follow the rules, the church should cast them out. Sounds drastic and harsh, but sometimes it's that type of "tough love" that wakes someone up enough to repent!

9 comments:

  1. Would you please point out some of the verses that prove "Once Saved/Always Saved?"

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  2. Perhaps the simplest answer can be found in John 3:16. If Jesus says that anyone who believes will not perish, there's not really a lot of wiggle room for losing the eternal life he talks about. If you are saved and then become "unsaved" you have now made Him out to be a liar.

    I suspect you're looking for more than just the simple answer though.

    Take a peek at John 6:37-40 in which Jesus repeatedly states that those who are His will remain so until "I will raise him up at the last day".

    Then there's the way we're saved. If it's truly accomplished through what Christ has already done on the cross on our behalf, if it's really a free gift of grace, what would be the basis of maintaining or losing that gift? Many argue that works are required to keep your salvation. But Paul quite clearly states that we are saved "apart from works" (Rom 4:6) and "apart from the deeds of the law" (Rom 3:28). So clearly it can't be that.

    I could go on and on, as this doctrine is not only taught repeatedly throughout the Bible but pretty much essential to an understanding of the Gospel, but it would be easier to answer you if I knew your specific objections to the concept. If you prefer a more general discussion, check out these audio files: http://www.audiofarm.org/audiofiles/6968-once-saved-always-saved-explained-and-defended-part-1- and http://www.audiofarm.org/audiofiles/7162-once-saved-always-saved-explained-and-defended-part-2-

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  3. Thank you for your quick response. I am hopeful that we are not that far off on this, but I do not have time to check out your references right now. I will very soon, however, and I will get back to you about them. In the meantime, please consider what I have been given to say about this:
    http://fishhawkdroppings.blogspot.com/2009/10/bittersweet-refinements-chapter-xviii.html

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  4. Well, I just finished listening to those audio files, and I used to preach just like that when I was a pastor of a Southern Baptist Church years ago. Well, I never dared go so far as to proclaim that even someone who becomes an avowed atheist in later years still has their salvation in Christ, but the rest was really close. Then, our Heavenly Father became real to me, and He explained the way it is, which is what is contained in that chapter from Bittersweet Refinements that I asked you to consider.

    By the way, does it not make you rather uneasy to hear someone repeatedly say that they are not real sure just what a certain verse or passage really means, but that it certainly couldn't mean this or that because that would contradict Once Saved/Always Saved? After all, does this not testify to the fact that his faith is based upon his own understanding of what he wants to believe is the truth?

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  5. It makes me far more uneasy to hear someone say his direct revelation from God is more accurate than what scripture says. My apologies, but I believe we should test everything we understand about God on the basis of scripture, not the other way around.

    Dr. Wilkin (who gave those talks) has a doctorate in New Testament studies. He has devoted his life to learning and understanding what the Bible says about all kinds of tough issues, OSAS included. That he doesn't understand every single verse in the Bible is not surprising -- there is much we won't understand until we see God face to face!

    If, as you claim, you can be saved and then lost again, does that not directly contradict all of Christ's promises that whoever is saved shall never perish? The most basic concept in scripture is that the Bible, being the inerrant word of God, is 100% true. That means that anything that is in direct contradiction to it is false. Plain and simple. Either Jesus was speaking truth when He said that, or He wasn't and therefore is a liar and not fit to be the Christ; the pure, unblemished Lamb of God.

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  6. As was made very clear in what our Heavenly Father has given me to say about this, He does not want to see anyone perish. Therefore, He will not reject anyone who wants to have faith in His Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, but it would defeat His purpose to force anyone to spend all of eternity with Him in His Kingdom of Heaven as an heir to all that is His in glory against their own desires not to do so. Why anyone would not want to, I cannot imagine, but the door must be left open for the kind of relationship that we can have with Him to have any true and lasting significance. Otherwise, it would be like being in a loveless marriage for all of eternity. Be assured that this has nothing to do with us earning our keep.

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  7. Of course, as always, FishHawk has hit upon something profound. The fatal flaw in all such spiritual misconceptions. Not everyone chooses to be saved; nor does everyone choose to continue their own previous directions!

    Thus, it is also written: " That many shall be ' Blotted Out ' from The Book Of Life! " Ergo, your own fallacy.

    " Once Written In The Book; But Then Blotted Out " - is scriptural; but, " Once Saved; Always Saved " is not!

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  8. Not familiar with the verse you're citing Francis, and can't find it on a cursory search.

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  9. Exodus 32:33-34 says:

    " And The Mighty One said to Moses, ' Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My Book '.

    Now therefore [ Understanding This Fact ], go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you [ The Promised Land Of Your Fathers ]. Behold, My Angel [ The Angel Of Yahweh ] shall go before you.

    Nevertheless, in the day when I visit you for punishment [ Upon The Judgment Day ], I will visit punishment upon them [ These Licentious Ones ] for their sin. " - Exodus 32:33-34.

    Again, In Revelation 3:5, It says:

    " He who overcomes [ The Sinful World Around Him ] shall be clothed in white garments [ His Sins Shall Be Forgotten ], and I will not blot out his name from The Book Of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. " - Revelation 3:5.

    Do you see it now? Indeed, Yahweh Doesn't Change!

    And this simple fact, doesn't make Yahshua ' A Liar ' - since you have already been warned to study All Of The Scriptures. What it does, is make You [ Who Failed To Do So ] ' A Liar. '

    Luckily, however, you can still be forgiven - as long as the breath of life is still within you!

    Shalom.

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